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The Lynnae and Emily Lake story
A Family-Rights/anti-CPS activist in Portland, Oregon, along with her
9-year-old daughter, have become the recent targets of "Gestapo"
tactics by the local politicians, who dispatched a large cadre of
heavily-armed and dog-accompanied Policemen to their home, to take them
into custody.
In the process of that arrest, the Police pepper-sprayed the young
child twice, and they finally seized and separated her from her
mother's custody under the Child Protective Services regulations.
This story involves more than Family-Rights/anti-CPS activism on the part of the mother, LynnaeLake. In fact, Ms. Lake is not even a citizen or resident of Oregon, but of Michigan. She and her daughter had ended up in Portland while fleeing from trumped-up allegations of child abuse against Lynnaeimmediately following her publicized attempt to get compensated for damages to her Michigan residential property by a large Chemical Plant, which plant is located 5 miles up-river from her property there.
Because the Family Rights/anti-CPS coalition in Michigan had investigated the "CPS case" against Lynnae, and had found that the charges against her were obviously trumped-up in retaliation for her actions against the Chemical Plant, and that it appeared imminent that Child Protective Services was about to sieze Emily, but that Lynnae was provably innocent, they arranged for this mother and daughter to flee ahead of the actions by CPS,
via the long-standing system that had been established for just such
cases, called "the underground railroad," or more specifically "FamTrak".
The above is my personal "take" on the situation, based on not only the
sparse facts that have been gathered and published by the
closer-involved activists, but also on my personal knowledge of and
personal experience with the systemic abuses of the Child Protective laws and regulations for financial and political reasons and motives of the politicians.
Joseph Sarandos
That said, here are the earliest reports of the situation as they appear on the internet:
August 12, 2005 Hiding place becomes scorched earth
The Lynnae and Emily Lake story
By Leonard Henderson
9 year old Emily Lake
"an absolute angel"
On August 10, 2005 a mother and daughter violently taken into custody
by at least seven Portland Oregon cops with no warrant. The
mother, LynnaeLake
did not resist arrest, but the cops beat the daylights out of
her. The cops were reminded of their Constitutional
responsibility in making an arrest, and replied "We don't need a
warrant and we don't have to give her her rights".
The daughter, 9 year old Emily Lake, tried to protect her mother and was pepper sprayed TWICE.
Which leads one to wonder if the cops even knew why they were on the call.
The "authorities" are pretending that this is a "child abuse" case.
Other than the egregious abuse of Emily by the "Child Protectors" when
they had her in custody in the past, this case is about PROPERTY, land
and home.
The way I understand it-
In Michigan, there is a lovely piece of land situated close to a lovely
river in a lovely valley. This lovely scene is located about 5
miles downstream from a chemical plant. The chemical plant had
destroyed the river and poisoned the land. LynnaeLake had sought redress from the chemical company's damage to her property value.
In short order, a "child abuse" allegation surfaces. There is no
quicker way to make your political troubles "go away" than a child
abuse allegation against a parent. The CPS agency will go after
the parent with malicious disregard for fact, truth or the
Constitutional protections afforded to CRIMINALS. This is after
all, a CIVIL case.
The accused instantly finds their credibility, honor, and social
standing destroyed. Shortly, the accused will lose their job and
their financial ability to defend themselves. There is nothing to
"win". With the weight of the entire system arrayed against them,
and no remaining credibility, the only choice for some people is to
FLEE.
The Underground Railroad.
Yes, just like the Underground Railroad for the slaves in the middle
1800's, there is an underground railroad today. It is called
"FamTrak". It is only for PROVABLY INNOCENT parents and their
children. The operation of "FamTrak" has been severely curtailed
over the past 4 years due to America's rapid slide into being a
Surveillance State due to the "War against Terror". "Political
correctness" dictates that the government is NOT looking specifically
for (profiling) middle eastern men between 15 and 50 years old.
In order to be "fair", Everybody's movements and travels are surveilled.
Lynnae and Emily Lake
were "FamTrak" travelers. They were being protected while
advocates in Michigan were plowing through the political labyrinth of
Michigan politics to expose this case for what it really is.
The Lake Family
I have been privileged to spend a couple of afternoons with Lynnae and Emily Lake. I found Lynnae
(the mom) to be highly intelligent with impressive knowledge and
experience with the technical aspects of electronics. I was
impressed with her uncompromising insistence on truth, accuracy and
high moral and ethical standards. Emily Lake
(the daughter), like most homeschoolers was very well-spoken, polite,
and quiet, exuded a high intellect. She was terrified at the
possibility of ending back in CPS' talons based on her previous
terrible experiences in foster care. Unfortunately, her fear of
abusive treatment by the authorities continues to be prophetic.
Current Status
LynnaeLake has been released by Portland Police due to no warrant or pickup order existed. Emily Lake
remains in Oregon CPS custody. The dependency or shelter hearing
had been postponed to Wednesday, August 17 has now been mysteriously
moved to Monday, August 15 which rather inconveniences the defense to
15 minutes to prepare to appear.
Advocates and activists all over the country are rallying to the Lake's defense.
Portland Police Vie with Anne Frank's Captors for 'Nazi Raiders of the Century' Award
[Editor's Note: This story picks up from an illegal nighttime raid by
Portland Police on August 10, 2005 at the home of Roger Weidner in
order to arrest LynnaeLake and take her 9 year daughter, Emily, into 'protective' custody, but the genesis of the story lies in Lynnae's
activities to bring legal action against a chemical plant located 5
miles from her home in Michigan. Accusing someone of being a 'child
abuser', of course, and putting the Child Protective Services dogs on
them is the fastest way, unfortunately, to take out a muckraker these
days The unbelievably abusive and criminal behavior of the Portland
Police in this case exceeds anything that I've read of in recent
memory. The child custody hearing on this case was moved up to Monday,
August 15, 2005. ..Ken Adachi]
By Will Gaston <browill@avoiceforchildren.com>
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/portalndpolicegestaporaid14aug05.shtml
August 14, 2005
Portland, Oregon. On August 10, 2005, LynnaeLake,
Family Rights activist from Michigan and co-host of "A Voice for
Children Radio Show" was arrested at the home of Roger Weidner, long
time defender of family rights. When Roger attempted to discover why
police surrounded his house and that of his 95 year old mother.
Weidner was told by police "you know why we are here - where are they?".
Weidner said he had no idea what they were talking about and where was their warrant?
Roger was told they "didn't need a warrant". Roger was immediately
arrested and thrown into the back of a police car - one of seven which
surrounded his house. .
Twelve police officers of the Portland Police Department stormed into
the house terrorizing his 95 year old mother as she took a bath. No
names were called out, nor did they attempt to identify who they were
searching for. The search went on for an hour.
Lynnae
and her 9 year old daughter were in the basement calling individuals to
say that the police had broken into Roger's house and had arrested
Roger for unknown reasons and were pounding all over upstairs on both
levels. Lynnae
and her daughter were told by people on the phone to secure themselves
as safely as possible while attempts were going to be made to see what
was going on.
The police spent many long minutes banging around and just saying "Come
out!. We know you are here". Finally they headed for the basement
calling they were bringing attack dogs and "they" would be bitten.
Frightened beyond belief and in complete fear for their lives, Emily
and her mom prayed for relief from this unknown attack from without.
The dog was heard snarling and growling and the police saying "get 'em,
get 'em" and "down, down" apparently to the snarling animal. The police
also said tasers were going to be used. Again, total terror reigned as
the mom and Emily cried and prayed for this nightmare to end.
A door was kicked in and all kinds of shouting occurred on the part of
the police. The police then pepper sprayed 9 year old Emily. Emily was
completely without the ability to breathe and was instantly throwing
up. Her mother tried to rinse her, pushing her under a shower and
trying to get her to breathe. The police turned off the water and the
mom turned it back on and the shower was again turned on and off over
and over. The Mom cried out "for heaven's sake she is just a child!!!"
And the police pepper sprayed them again with Emily once again getting the worst of it.
Mom was thrown and tackled on the basements steps by several officers
while Emily was ripped from her arms. Emily was choking and screaming
"don't hurt my mom" and "I want my mom" while other officers held her.
Lynnae
was handcuffed and hauled up the stairs and thrown on the floor of the
breakfast nook. The police themselves were all choking, gagging and
coughing. Emily was removed screaming from the house. The police said
to her "it is OK, you can trust us we are the police". Emily said "you
are the police, I DON'T trust you" and the officers said "oh, good
parent to teach your child that!".
Emily was forced to watch her mom being hauled out to a police car and
driven away, Roger Weidner, whom she also trusted, was also in a police
car. She called out "I love you " to her mom and her mom called back "I
love you too don't forget the phone" and then was gone.
Roger was then released from the police car while Emily was taken away
in a another police car. At no time was a DHS/CPS worker seen to
protect the safety of this little girl - but hey, isn't that the
police's job too?
Emily was allowed to make a phone call out several hours later to Nancy
Luckhurst of the Foundation for Children's Rights in Michigan and the
caseworker promised both of them that Emily would be allowed to call
again. Emily has not been heard from since.
In jail, the mother was severely beaten and threatened several times.
At no time were charges expressed against her or was she read her
rights. She on the other hand demanded by what authority had kidnapped
her and her child and arrested them all on assault and battery,
kidnapping and unlawful endangerment of individuals particularly a
minor child. She repeatedly demanded the inmate manual and complaint
forms. She demanded the whereabouts of her daughter and for someone to
check on Mrs. Weidner as she believed that Roger too had been arrested.
One police officer (of two who were pulling her hair, while three
others held her while she was double shackled) screamed "how would you
like me to rip your @#%$ hair out of your scalp?" Plucky woman that she
is, she replied just as loudly "DO IT" and they did.
About 24 hours later now charges were supposed to be against Lynnae
for custodial interference, but the charges never matured. An
arraignment was to be held. Surprisingly, this arraignment was at the
same time as a "secret" "shelter hearing held in another court was
going on for Emily. No notice of this "shelter" hearing for Emily was
given to Lynnae.
This family is well known and loved here in Oregon and by me
personally. Many supporters rallied on such short notice and different
groups went to the different courts.
No arraignment happened for Lynnae - no charges were brought and she was told she would be released in a couple of hours. Because of no charges or arraignment of Lynnae I was able to head over to the "shelter" hearing with a group of outraged citizens.
Lynnae
found out through a phone call she was allowed to make to Nancy
Luckhurst back in Michigan that there was a hearing for Emily happening
at the same time. She demanded to the "court officers" of the jail her
right to be at this hearing and the fact she had not been served
notice. She was basically told 'too bad'.
Several hours went by and release did not come. Two officers said "we
have good news and bad news: you have no charges, but now you have a
fugitive warrant from Michigan and we can't let you out". Lynnae calmly said OK and called Nancy once again to say she was now not going to be released.
Not one professional, including the court attorney appointed for Lynnae,
Lissa Kaufman , even mentioned the fact the mother was not served
notice of the "shelter" hearing and that this hearing should be
postponed until such time as she could attend.
The Gallery held at least 12 supporters of this family including
myself, Will Gaston, Roger Weidner, Susan Detlefsen of
Motherinterrupted TV show, a DHS worker who had been on Susan's show
stating the corruption of the system, and Larry Jackson a prominent
business and newspaper man. Many stood on the authority of AMICUS CUREA
(Friend of the Court) to protest the hearing, the fact the mother was
not present, Emily was not present among other things.
Judge Waller allowed the supporters to speak and said she could not
move forward with anything as there were no charges pending against Lynnae
and they only had a pick up order from Michigan but did not have the
paperwork so had no authority to proceed. After much discussion about
scheduling the next hearing was set for Wednesday, August 17, 2005 at 1
PM.
Friday, August 12: Sometime in the afternoon, Lynnae
was set free. She found the elderly Mrs. Weidner ( 95 years old) still
traumatized by the events of 3 days prior. She kept crying and praying
for Emily and asking how could the police take a child who is calling
and crying for her mother. She went to her knees a few times to pray
for Emily. She kept saying "Emily, my princess, what can be happening
to her. Why would they take her from her mother that loves her so. I
used to work for child abuse services there is no abuse of that little
girl they love each other very much". This has also been captured on
video and will be presented to the judge.
At about 4:15 pm after several calls to attorney Lissa Kaufman's office
where she was told Ms Kaufman was unavailable until Monday she did get
a chance to speak to the legal assistant. She was told very little was
known and could she (the assistant) call back and set an appointment
for Monday morning at 11:30 to meet with Kaufman. She was however given
JD Devros the caseworker/supervisor's number to call about Emily.
At 5:05 PM the legal assistant called back asking if Lynnae had been able to reach Devros ( no) and said she had been on the phone with him herself. At this time Lynnae
was informed of the case number, that Kaufman had requested parenting
time with Emily prior to the next hearing, that Devors had been given
the contact information and was going to set up that and talk to her
(HAS NOT HAPPENED) and that the new shelter hearing had been ADVANCED
TO Monday, August 15 at 1PM. She said this was done without finding out
if any attorney was available. She said there would be no time to with
attorney Kaufman except possibly a half hour prior to the hearing. Also
Lynnae was informed at that time that following Monday's hearing Emily would be sent back to Michigan.
Of course, Lynnae protested all of this and again protested the fact she had not been served notice. She was told she would be served at court.
Now this is AFTER 5 PM and on a FRIDAY where no state offices or courts are open.
Lynnae
did call Devros and left a lengthy message. She also found the email
address for Devros and has sent emails to him - again with no response.
Susan Detleftsen provided Judge Waller's email and the Judge has been receiving email also.
The Portland Mayor (and former Police Chief) is Tom Potter
https://www.portlandonline.com/mayor/index.cfm?login=1&show_message=1&c=36628
has also been hearing about this along with many thousands of
individuals, activists, news media and legislators across the nation
and the world. The White House has been contacted.
All individuals including legislators back in Michigan are livid about
what has taken place here in our "fair" state to "protect" the mental,
emotional and physical safety of children and specifically this little
tiny child.
I, Pamela Gaston's husband, president and founder at "A Voice for
Children", founding member of the 5th Amendment Coalition, Founding
member of AFRA (American Family Rights Association) founding of OFRA
(Oregon Family Rights Association) and ranking officer in Gideon's Army
am OUTRAGED.
We are calling for an all out press of people to attend this phony,
unlawful hearing and once again observe the fraud of the court and the
outright corruption and conspiracy that holds us ALL in its evil
clutches.
Pray for this family - let your voices be heard in hitting "reply all"
and add your VOICES in getting this poor little girl FREE and back in
the arms of her loving but devastated parent. You will be reaching the
Judge and the caseworker on this case.
Will Gaston
A Voice For Children
Pamela and Will Gaston
P.O. BOX 132
Mt Angel, Oregon 97362
I've taken the liberty of re-posting this elsewhere, but with instruction to reply or respond to you directly in TFTF.
AG
imApest Registered User Posts: 1
(10/21/05 10:49 am) Reply
Re: The Lynnae and Emily Lake story
Thank you Joe
I am glad for your efforts to get the story about Emily and myself out
there. However I must make it clear there was nothing in the story
about any related "Chemical Plant" and my home. Dow Chemical indeed is
in the area. I however am upriver of the plant not the other way
around.
Dow Chemical is having much problems with the dioxn from the plant. I
have been involved with enviornmental issues. We are both on the river.
However the connction between the property, my activism in the
enviornmental arena, and CPS is not what is portrayed here.
I have long been an advocate and activist and will continue to remain that way no matter where I am.
The real issues are the children and the distruction of families. Emily was brutalized and it was done with intention.
Several members of the County Court have perjured themselves just to
get their hands on Emily. This was done with a willful disregard of
judicial duty and knowingly committed time and time again fraud on the
court using color of law to do so.
The court and DHS in and through the city and in and through licensed
workers and in working with others did infact try to "take possesion of
"my property. "Possession was the goal" states a licensed realtor in an
effort to make me comeforward to stop the illegal taking.
Unfortunately in trying to explain her actions to the licensing board
she has given up numerous individuals including the city and the motive.
I hope this clears some things up.
Emily has been held incommunicato for 10 weeks now. She is being
sadistically held that way for the purpose of breaking her mentally and
emotionally into thinking she has no support and no one is fighting for
her. There is also a sadistic move to brainwash her either verbally and
emotionally and/or through chemical (drugs) means.
We have a promise to each other and I will always keep my promise to her from now and until the end of time.
I love you my baby girl. Keep STRONG, Keep your FAITH, remember your
phone numbers, I am here and I am fighting always. Do not be afraid -
we are stronger than they are - we have GOD on our side.
Love,prayers and hugs and kisses from your Mom. xxxoooxxx
LynnaeLake
FREE EMILY JOY LAKE - KIDNAPPED AND MOLESTED BY PORTLAND OR POLICE AND CURRENTLY HELD HOSTAGE WITHOUT COMMUNICATION BY MICHIGAN
What would you attempt if you knew you would not fail?
To reach and open one mind is to open the world to new possibilities.
Re: The Lynnae and Emily Lake story
Glad to meet you, Ms. "Pest," although not in your unfortunate and
unfair circumstances with which I am virtually unable to personally
help you.
My only "apology" for any mistakes that I made in posting your story is that all of my information came through existing internet postings.
It goes without saying that I sympathize and empathize with Emily and you, but by this time you should have more current
knowledge of the "Child Protection Industry" than I do, since I'm going
on age 68 this November and it's been a very long time since the 7
years in which I was totally involved as an activist, authorized
representative and investigator in bogus CPS cases.
However, it might deepen your current understanding to know what was
happening during the time of my involvement starting in 1986.
If you haven't already done so, please start by reading my long essay
titled "A Call For Change," which you'll find in this same section, at: p209.ezboard.com/fthefull...ID=2.topic
Of course, this entire section is devoted to such subjects, so you'll
find in it other articles by other people, along with more of mine,
some of which contain links to or E-mail addresses of other advocates
as well as other victims.
You might also scan through the "Hot Links" section for addresses of other parents-advocacy organizations.
In other words, Lynnae, about all that I'm able to do is make you more savvy as to the monster that you're up against.
However, I see that you are already doing as I did, which is to trust
in and silently pray to God for patience, strength and guidance.
I assure you that what I did accomplish would have been impossible to
understand, much less accomplish, via my own intelligence, education,
and/or special knowledge and experience.
God is always on the side of innocents, but He had made a firm promise
to grant every person "free will" to do either right or wrong, and so
He does not directly intervene by "changing minds" of evil-doers, but
only by strengthening the minds and the resolves of good-doers, while
He also manipulates His natural forces and mindless creatures against nations that are causing or allowing evil to be done to masses of otherwise-powerless innocents.
I'm sorry that this is all I have to give you, but I sincerely hope and
believe that it will do you some good as you continue your fight.
My last bit of advice is to not be afraid of making rich enemies in
high places, but make and keep all of the poor and powerless friends
who help you in any way.
Please understand that my (temporary) "stifling" of your voice in this
situation is not necessarily a matter of my "protecting or favoring"
Ms. Lake in this board.
As things now stand, and as I'd just explained to Ms. Lake, all of my previously posted information had come directly from the internet sources to which I provided the URL-links.
Before Ms. Lake
came here in her true identity, to publicly correct some of the
misconceptions that had been published by others and repeated by me,
there had been no private communications between her and me.
However, I did receive and reply to E-mail correspondence from one of
the "third parties" to the situation, who felt that she and at least
one other woman had been treated with ingratitude and disloyalty by Ms.
Lake in return for their risks and kindness in hiding her and her daughter via "the Underground Railroad". Like Ms. Lake,
the other woman had identified herself to me in her true name. The
"long and the short" of my discussion with her was to explain that it
is normal and natural for actual or intended victims of
"child-snatching" by CPS to be extremely paranoid about and distrusting
of any and all strangers
who come into their lives, their having no ways to be absolutely
certain of which strangers might be "wolves in sheep's clothing" and
which might be sincerely interested and involved in helping them
against getting caught by their stalkers from CPS.
Additionally, it is normal and natural for good-hearted people to expect unquestioning trust, gratitude and respectful treatment from
the perfect strangers that they take into their homes and lives under
such circumstances. Nonetheless, hardly any of the good-hearted and
well-intentioned hosts of such CPS victims had themselves
been actual or intended victims of "the system," and so it is nearly
impossible for them to truly understand the attitudes and actions of
their "guests". Finally, there is always the aspect of cultural and/or personality clashes between such hosts and such guests. And so, it is because of the combination of these, just-explained factors, that it is usual
for "bitter feelings" to arise between some of the victims and some of
their benefactors under such circumstances, therefore there have been many cases in which the advocates and benefactors have received virtual "kicks in the teeth" during and after their self-sacrificing efforts to actually help the parents and children who are not in full control of their emotions during their fear-filled ordeals as "refugees" from CPS-victimization.
But, as I had made perfectly clear by my own comments, my concerns and indignation revolve around the actions of the Police and the CPS-Workers who had finally arrested Ms. Lake and had both seized and tortured her daughter in the process, as was reported and published in the original story. Therefore, if only this part of the story is true, then my feelings and sympathies remain the same regardless of any and all other aspects of this unfortunate situation.
This is why I felt it necessary and fair to delete the entire original contents of your post, Jimmy Mack, which contents amounted to "personal flaming" of Ms. Lake, in a manner that is forbidden by the posted rules of my board.
What you had written might indeed be actually true, but you are a total stranger to me, while I know the actual identities of Ms. Lakeand the woman who had contacted me by E-mail. In other words, you are as of now an anonymous person, of unkown motives and invovement in the overall situation, who obviously has "a beef" with Ms. Lake, but that you have yet to explain and justify either privately or publicly.
Either intentionally or purposely, you had made it sound as if you feel that Ms. Lakedeserves to be stripped of her biological child (and the child of her biological mother) because of her "shabby treatment" toward others who had assisted them out of the goodness of their hearts.
In my own mind, in accordance with the will of God as I understand it, and as I have personally witnessed it, no children could end up "better off" after being raised by paid foster or adoptive parents in whom the inherent "kill for or die for" intuitions are naturally absent although they can be "faked".
Regardless of the flaws
that might be present in some biological parents, i.e.; alcoholism,
drug-addiction, gambling, abrasive personalities, uncontrolled tempers,
undeserved punishments of their children, etc., the Fedral Laws and Regulations require and demand, although the County and State agents do not abide by, that any and all efforts and expenses be expended toward correcting and remedying such flaws in the parents, so as to make it possible for all children to remain with their biological parents in their own homes.
And so, Jimmy Mack, before you make any additional posts in this board, I request, suggest and recommend that you first read and absorb my original essays that I'd also suggested Ms. Lake to read; "A Call For Change" and "A Warning to Poor Parents," so that you also can understand the "ins and outs," as well as the horrendous effects and results, of the now $100 billion per year industry that had grown out of the so-called "Parens Patriae Authority" that makes "the State" the ultimate parent of all minor children.
In the interim and/or simultaneously, you are welcome to privately
contact me via E-mail and give me your full story in your true
identity, that I will deeply and seriously consider and respond to.
Sincerely,
Joseph Sarandos
Edited by: Joseph Sarandos at: 10/22/05 11:43 am
Thanks for sending the E-mail, and I want you to know that I just
finished reading it at 9 PM California time, but I possibly won't have
time to respond to it tonight (unless the pain greatly subsides from
the medical procedure that I'd undegone 2 days ago).
I will, however, ask you to publicly answer this one question that you'd left unaddressed in your E-mail, which is; Why are you in particular indulging in a campaign to discredit LynnaeLake in particular? In other words; What is your personal motivation for doing so?
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
I have spent a great deal of my life "mopping" innocent families off
the floor when they have done nothing at all to deserve watching their
children, or related foster children, being torn from the family and
adopted out to "really cool adoptive foster parents".
They cry, they have strokes, they have heart attacks...and then then
slip into a non-reversible depression that will stay with them the rest
of their lives.
And then we have people like Lynnae,
who was given a second chance, who would rather dig her heels in and
proclaim her innocence when all the evidence points to her guilt.
She will not accept the fact that she, and she alone, is responsible
for her children being taken into custody. She assaulted her children,
she assaulted others, and she would rather pin the blame on the
innocent victims than accept culpability for her actions.
She is arrogant and non-relenting...she bites the hand that feeds her.
She is everything she is protesting so vehemently against...
We cannot win this fight when people like Lynnae,
provably guilty, are so vocal and public. We must retain our
credibility as advocates by defending those who deserve our efforts.
When Lynnae
is proven to be guilty of her assaults against children and families,
CPS will have the leverage to discredit all of us. They can simply say
that we will defend anyone and that we will not recognize the
difference between defending innocent families or guilty ones.
She makes us look ridiculous, and we have put too much into our efforts to allow one person to discredit the entire movement.
CPS is an abomination. There are no checks and balances, no
accountability and children are often removed from the entire family at
the sole discretion of a single caseworker who decides that if there is
one "Bad Apple" in the family, the entire family must be rotten as well.
Her own children cried out for protection from their mother. Are we to
say the children do not have the right to be protected, when others
have witnessed the same violent behaviors that the children describe?
Do we demonize the victim in order to protect the abuser? What is
advocacy all about? We must not protect the abusers to further the
cause...the bottom line is "The Best Interest of the Child".
Is it in the best interest to allow children to be at the mercy of
their assaultive parents because CPS is an evil agency? We must fight
to place these children with non-offending relatives, such as the
current placement Emily is in, and we will never reach this objective
by saying CPS is wrong 100% of the time...sadly, we must recognize that
sometimes parents do batter their children.
These children have the right to be protected, and most of all we must
listen to them and believe them when they cry out for protection.
Sometimes children make false allegations...sometimes they need for us
to keep them from harm's way.
This is a gruelling and horrible arena. We cannot remain in it for long
without it taking its terrible toll on us all. We must focus our
energies on helping those who deserve it, and we must lobby to reform
the Children's Administration. We are shooting ourselves in the foot by
promoting parents such as Lynnae...and THAT is my beef with her.
The injured parties in this case have presented incontrovertible evidence to me, and I know that Lynnae
is misrepresenting the facts of this case. She is willing to discredit
and assassinate the character of anyone who confronts her, and she has
gone to extraordinary lengths to have their children taken from them on
HER (Lynnae's) false testimony...
She has become what she proclaims she is fighting against...
She wants to be the poster child for this movement...in reality CPS could use her for their poster child. She must be stopped.
To greatly simplify this matter as it personally concerns me, please
tell me exactly, one by one, and without adding any extrinsic comments,
which if any parts of this verbatim excerpt (from a post at the top of this thread) are not true:
"Portland, Oregon. On August 10, 2005, LynnaeLake,
Family Rights activist from Michigan and co-host of "A Voice for
Children Radio Show" was arrested at the home of Roger Weidner, long
time defender of family rights. When Roger attempted to discover why
police surrounded his house and that of his 95 year old mother.
Weidner was told by police "you know why we are here - where are they?".
Weidner said he had no idea what they were talking about and where was their warrant?
Roger was told they "didn't need a warrant". Roger was immediately
arrested and thrown into the back of a police car - one of seven which
surrounded his house. .
Twelve police officers of the Portland Police Department stormed into
the house terrorizing his 95 year old mother as she took a bath. No
names were called out, nor did they attempt to identify who they were
searching for. The search went on for an hour.
Lynnae
and her 9 year old daughter were in the basement calling individuals to
say that the police had broken into Roger's house and had arrested
Roger for unknown reasons and were pounding all over upstairs on both
levels. Lynnae
and her daughter were told by people on the phone to secure themselves
as safely as possible while attempts were going to be made to see what
was going on.
The police spent many long minutes banging around and just saying "Come
out!. We know you are here". Finally they headed for the basement
calling they were bringing attack dogs and "they" would be bitten.
Frightened beyond belief and in complete fear for their lives, Emily
and her mom prayed for relief from this unknown attack from without.
The dog was heard snarling and growling and the police saying "get 'em,
get 'em" and "down, down" apparently to the snarling animal. The police
also said tasers were going to be used. Again, total terror reigned as
the mom and Emily cried and prayed for this nightmare to end.
A door was kicked in and all kinds of shouting occurred on the part of
the police. The police then pepper sprayed 9 year old Emily. Emily was
completely without the ability to breathe and was instantly throwing
up. Her mother tried to rinse her, pushing her under a shower and
trying to get her to breathe. The police turned off the water and the
mom turned it back on and the shower was again turned on and off over
and over. The Mom cried out "for heaven's sake she is just a child!!!"
And the police pepper sprayed them again with Emily once again getting the worst of it.
Mom was thrown and tackled on the basements steps by several officers
while Emily was ripped from her arms. Emily was choking and screaming
"don't hurt my mom" and "I want my mom" while other officers held her."
In a separate post, following your response to this one, I am also going to ask for your full explanation of why, how and when you personally became involved in or with this particular case.
Re: No Way, Lynnae!My E-mailed reply to Jimmy Mack:
----------
From: Joseph Sarandos <josephsarandos@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:08:35 -0700
To: Jimmy Mack <jimmymack1777@xxxx>
Subject: Re: Lynnae
Dear "Jimmy,"
While I am not as yet drawing any conclusions with regard to the truth of your information about Ms. Lake,
and while there is no need for you to provide me with sensitive or
possibly risky information about yourself, you have not as yet answered
my questions as to the why, how and when of your personal involvement
and motivations in this particular case.
I know full well, from 7 straight years of advocacy and activism in
especially "bogus" CPS cases, that CPS invites, encourages and expands
on "adverse complaints," true or false, from people who have any
reasons at all to "dislike" the accused parent(s) in such cases.
It is my sincere hope, although not my ultimate summation, that you are
not being motivated by extrinsic personal reasons, in your apparent
attempt to discredit Ms. Lake
via your "Internet campaign" to prove her published story to be false
in any regards, and/or for her and some others to be lying about the
situation involving the actions of the Oregon Police Department
Officers during their arrest of Ms. Lake and their seizing of Emily from her, i.e.; their use of dogs and pepper-spray.
Therefore, before I continue any public or private discussions with
you, I have taken the measure of contacting some others of the involved
or interested parties to the overall situation, in my attempt to
discover the source of your apparent "grudge stalking" against Ms. Lake and those who believe or support her.
As the title of by Internet board suggests and implies, my personal and
primary interest is in Truth. So it should be understandable to you
that I do not ever pre-judge the honesty and motives of those who post
in my board by only the ways in which they present their information in
their own words, regardless of their respective eloquence.
In all honesty and sincerity,
Joseph Sarandos
3230 E. Westcott Avenue
Visalia, CA 93292
NOTE: I will be posting just the above part of this E-mail in the
subject thread in TFTF, so that you and/or others will be free to
respond to it publicly.
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
Fair enough. Have you checked the background of "those that support
her"? You might get a surprise if you do. Many of them will end up in
jail if she turns on them, the way she turned on others that have
"crossed" her.
If you are interested in the "stalking" issue, then check to see who is
really stalking who. The false reporting is coming from their end, not
the other way around. Lynnae and Nancy made it clear that if Lynnae
loses Emily, others will lose their children as well. The problem is
that the "others" have not abused their children, nor do they deserve
to be attacked by these seemingly friendly family "advocates".
I thought I made my motives clear. I know many of the innocent victims
that these two women have slandered and harmed. I know multiple
families that have had false referrals made against them by these women
as well.
Just because something is in print, does not make it true, and you are
correct when you state that eloquence is not presumptive of innocence
either. But when people are relentless about pursuing an issue, doesn't
it lend one to believe there is something behind the force that drives
them on in their efforts to be heard and believed?
Righteous indignation to injustice is a strong motivating force.
Knowing the truth, and being unable to convince others of danger is another explanation for this behavior.
It will all come out in the wash. I believe that good triumphs over
evil. When the hand is played out and all the cards are on the table
the truth will be evident.
The fury of Hell can't lay a glove,
On the rage of Angels up above;
When Heaven's Law has been defiled,
And harm comes to a little child.
For those who harm a child must pay,
And face the Lord above someday;
They'll have to look him in the eye,
Confess their sins and tell Him why.
How Jesus loves the little ones!
For them the battle will be won;
By Saints and Angels who collect,
The names of children to protect.
Emily's name was among those children...and the Lord did protect.
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
Jimmy Mack, and any others who hold the belief that "God protects"
children by allowing them to be separated from their birth-parents by a
government agency and then placed with "more fit" strangers, please please read and comprehend only the true statistics that I'd appended in my opening post to the thread titled; "Why are the Bush’s so keen on adoptions?" at this URL in this section of this board: p209.ezboard.com/fthefull...D=39.topic
From those statistics alone, then make up your own minds as to whether or not the children themselves benefit in the long run by being so "protected" in their early youth, as opposed to whether or not the children themselves become permanently harmed by such "protection".
This is a fair and reasonable request on my part, and it would be fair and reasonable for you to comply with this request if your primary concern is for the children themselves.
I am not in the business of "pontificating," or "proselytizing," or
"self-aggrandizement," but only that of researching and presenting true facts in true premises for the benefit of only such persons who are actually interested in and attempting to separate the truths from the lies in our times.
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
I believe in children remaining with biological parents whenever
possible. If the parents are not able to protect or care for the child,
then the child should always be placed with biological family.
Only as a last, and I mean very last resort, should a child be placed in foster care.
Knowing the situation surrounding Emily, I can assure you that this
child is safe with a family member who loves her and is giving her the
nurturing she needs to stabilize.
Would you prefer that this little child be placed with a mother who
uses assault to reconcile her differences? Is it better for Emily to
remain with her mother, who has made deliberately destructive choices
concerning the welfare of her children, simply because Lynnae gave birth to the child?
Maybe you should invite Lynnae
to stay with you for a few weeks before making that decision...frankly,
you are uninformed about the stability of this woman, and you feel we
are "Picking" on her.
Here's an idea! Let her take care of a child within your own family...Leave her unsupervised with a loved one of your own.
I TAKE THAT BACK!...I would not wish that on ANY child...I know this
woman and what she is capable of...why not help her get psychiatric
help instead...and maybe supervised visits. That is all my conscience
will allow me to suggest.
Take time to know her before you defend her...she "talks good", but she doesn't walk the walk,
Have you read any of my threads in this board to which I have referred and linked to from this immediate thread?
The speediness of your replies in this thread suggest otherwise, unless you are a very accomplished "speed reader".
As it is and as it should be, the LynnaeLake story is not
a unique and separate issue within the scope of CPS atrocities, and it
is certainly not a "worst case horror story" as such have been posted
in this board. Therefore, I will not
consider it "in a vacuum" aside from my personal knowledge, personal
involvements, personal experiences, personal researches and personal
feelings with regard to the overall CPS situation.
If you had also been involved as an authorized representative and
case-investigator in bogus CPS cases, then you should and must know
that it is a rare occurrence when "the truth comes out in the wash" in
hearings before Juvenile Court Referees or Judges, or even in State
Hearings before CPS-employed Administrative Judges, due to the fact
that the burden is placed on the accused parents to somehow prove that they had not committed the atrocities that they are presumed guilty of,
against the paid and un-paid testimonies and opinions of both "experts"
and laymen who had been "lined up" against them by CPS-Workers. You
would also know that such "stacking of the deck" by the County agencies
is imperative and encouraged, since the financial incomes of the County agencies and their paid contractors depend on the numbers of cases
that they are so able to "settle in the best interests of the children
with all benefit of doubts being granted to the children" in most
cases. It is never necessary that any firm proofs of guilt be presented against the accused parents. In other words, were it not for opinionated lies as fabricated or expanded by the CPS-Workers, and if the accused "child abusers" were granted at least the same Constitutional Rights as murderers are guaranteed and granted in Criminal Courts, then only a small percentage of children would end up being permanently separated from their God-decided biological parents. If you disagree with these assertions, then you could never have been a Federally-authorized representative for especially indigent parents.
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
As a matter of fact, I am an accomplished speed reader, but that aside,
I am already aware of the information you have posted. I do not
disagree with any of it. I disagree with Lynnae using the vicious tactics of the Children's Administration against her perceived "enemies"...she learned from the best.
Nobody has been more vocal than I about getting this same information
out to the public...you would be amazed at the lengths I have gone to,
to educate the public about the corruption within the Children's
Administration.
The States cannot function without the money they receive from the
Title IV-E funding for the maintenance of the foster care system
currently in place...foster children are ATM machines for the
States...no argument here.
We must not, however, place children in harm's way and make the
ridiculous assumption that all children, every time, are better off
with the biological parent than in an alternative placement. Sometimes
that simply is not the case.
You might be wondering what I am doing to change the system. You may assume that I am only focused on Lynnae.
You would be wrong in that assumption. My efforts will bear that out,
and you will know, with all certainty, that I will continue my efforts
for reform in a very vocal and public manner....
You will know in a very short time how dedicated I am to this cause and
to what lengths I will go to bring the Children's Administration into
compliance with the law. I will send you the upcoming headlines, and
then you will have no further doubts as to where my loyalties lie.
I stand for the families, first and foremost, and I put my money where my mouth is. And yes, I do have a big mouth...
Please notice that I've persistently given you the benefit of the
doubts as to your interests, concerns and activism in the cause of
getting CPS to at least comply with the existing Federal regulations that require the rehabilitation of biological parents whatever their flaws, so as to make them both willing and able to properly treat their children.
If you've read my own original essays, along with copy/pasted and/or
self-contributed articles by others, then there should be left not a
single iota of doubt left in your mind as to not only where my sympathies reside, but also as to why.
As with almost every evil scheme that is motivated by personal or
institutional greed (including America's involvement in the Mid-East
wars), innocent children end up being the ultimate victims, being killed or maimed for life either physically, mentally or spiritually.
Although money is the "grease" that keeps the family-destroying mill
operating to the tune of $100 billion annually (all through deficit
spending by the government), the motive and goal of the Child Protection/Adoptions scheme is to destroy especially Christian and especially male-headed traditional families, as is now confirmed by the latest Census statistics which show that as of now fewer than 24% of American families consist of one man, his wife and their children, even counting adopted children the same as biological children while the great majority of children are being raised and cared for by "families" such as single or cohabitating Gays and/or Lesbians, or such as "The Brady Bunch" sort of "yours, mine and our" children all mixed together under one roof, or by paid foster parents who boot their charges out into the streets upon their reaching the age of 18 years, or in Group homes that not only allow, but encourage sexual activity between the imates.
It is statistically supported that before the Federally-funded Child Protection/Adoptions Industy became funded, there were fewer than 5% of all American children who were actually being abused or mal-treated by their own parents in their own homes. But ever since the engineering, emplacement and limitless funding for this industry, there have been an average of 20% per year of children being "suspected or guessed" to be victims of various and sundry forms of parental abuse, even the newly invented concept of "Parental paedophilic Incest" involving babies and pre-pubescent children.
Therefore, we now have a generation of legal adults who are yet suffering the consequences of "being protected" by mercenaries whose primary interest was personally profiting from the parts they played in this un-Godly industry, i.e.; the statistics I'd referred you to in the "Bushes Keen on Adoptions" thread.
Personally, I just flat don't give a damn about how much more money is
being wasted and "charged to the future" by our already-bankrupt
government, and I care only a bit more about adults who are going through all sorts of hell, but I deeply resent and abhor the fact that millions of children have been made to suffer at the hands of the professional liars who manage and operate this bogus industry.
Even if LynnaeLake
is "a bitch on wheels," so to speak, and regardless that others of her
children had previously reported her to CPS (which such reporting is officially encouraged for rebellious adolescents who resent parental disciplining), there have been no reports of her abusing the daughter who had just been snatched from her, and there have been no indications that this daughter has anything but unconditional love for her mother, or that she wishes to be separated from or protected against her mother.
There are all sorts of "bitches on wheels" who mistreat both relatives and strangers, but are yet loving and caring mothers to their own children. Also, there are millions
of Americans who think that they are qualified judges of who should and
who should not be deprived of their children, like a large group of
mothers-in-law who hate the spouses of their own children, and who have
now been armed with "machine guns" to use in their causes of "saving
their sons or daughters from unworthy spouses". Add to this that all professionals who deal in any ways with children, have been made "Mandated Reporters" of even barely-suspected parental abuses, at risk of fines and jailing
for failing to report such cases, and that there is now a vitual army
of "Expert witnesses" who are paid as much as $1,000 per each court
appearance as "witnesses for the prosecution" against accused parents.
Further, it has been shown by government statistics that children in foster and adoptive care are at 8 times the risk of being abused than are children who are living with their biological parents.
If you, Jimmy Mack, and others like you, are willing to ignore or
discount the statistics, and decide for yourself that any particular
child would be "better off" if removed from his or her parents, then
you, like "the State" and the CPS-Workers, are assuming the role of God.
Since you are a Christian, then please refer to the Biblical story about King Solomon and the disputed baby of two known harlots. Can you pretend to such wisdom? Would you have reached the same decision via the same "test"?
Think longer and harder about what you're attempting to do in the case of the Lakes.
You are staunch in your position...you will not relent or admit that
some parents are so deficient that they deserve to lose communication
with their children.
I saw this "Bitch on Wheels" abuse the child in question..Gee, why don't just we cut the baby in half and you can have your way?
I'm sure Lynnae
would agree with you...Emily's best interest took a backseat to her
own...Let's place all children back with parents that abuse
them...(sarcasm, in case this is not recognized as such)
"Fuque Vous"...(Yes, I am bilingual, and I also know that "fuque" is
not a word...it is simply satire)...But when a child has been thrown
out of a moving car by a boyfriend that beats the mother and the
children both, then something needs to be addressed...
You are serving no purpose in protecting children...you are protecting the abuser, and my question is WHY???
You are setting the movement back by decades with your self-righteous
bullshit...It makes me question how stable you are, and why you would
take such a rigid position in protecting obviously deficient parents
such as Lynnae...
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
p.s...Lynnae
sure found the right forum...you would defend her if she stood over the
child with a knife sticking out of the child's back, wouldn't you?
Fortunately you are one of the few that support her.
Face it, Joseph...some parents should not raise animals, let alone
children...I am disgusted by your defense of the indefensible. Emily
owns her own life...it is not up to her mother to decide whether or not
to place the child in life threatening situations.
Emily has the right to live in peace, without being endangered by a
mother who simply wants to exonerate herself from her previous charges
of assault against her older children.
How dare you presume that these children are lying! I know better,
Jimmy
Although I will let them stand as worded, your two posts just above
this one of mine will mark the end of the discussion between you and
me, and I will issue a preliminary warning that I might ban you from
this forum if you continue or resume your original behavior and
attitude.
You came here in anonymity, admittedly in a "stalking and flaming" campaign against LynnaeLake
in her true identity, and your very first post in this thread was so
"beyond the pale" as an ad hominem attack that I had to entirely delete
and replace its contents administratively, which was in full accordance
with the posted Rules and Policies of this board that you deigned to
read before posting here.
Despite my repeated public and private requests, you had never
disclosed your personal reasons, motivations, or involvement in this
particular case.
And now, you've decided and acted to "flame" both my person and this
board because you feel that I have personally "sided with" the object
of your obsessive derision.
If you now, belatedly, go and read the Rules and Policies of this
board, you will see that the sort of attitude and conduct that you've
exhibited is simply not allowable in this particular board.
As of now, you are not banned and you may continue to post, provided
that your further posts are in full compliance with the posted Rules
and Policies, or otherwise they will be deleted by me and you will be banned from here by me.
My own motives, purposes and acions with regard to CPS matters are purely altruistic,
and I personally don't give a hoot as to who does or does not agree
with them, and neither do I require agreement with me as a condition of
membership in this board, but I do both require and enforce civility and common decency between any and all members including myself as the owner.
At this point, I will leave it to anyone else who might wish to debate
or discuss these matters with you, and I will merely
moderate/administer the rest of this thread.
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
Rules are made to be broken, and in a situation as serious as this, I don't care if you ban me or not.
If there was a viper in your midst, would you want to be warned, or
would you rather find out the hard way? You have been warned...this is
all I have to say on this subject...at least on this forum.
Re: No Way, Lynnae!
For the benefit of onlookers and participants in this thread (current
and/or future), I am replicating here my comments, and Jimmy Mac's
respone to them, as are published in the Portland Independent Media
Center web site at: portland.indymedia.org/en...5244.shtml
Questionable motives and involvement of "Jimmy Mack" 27.Oct.2005 17:23
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph Sarandos (true name) josephsarandos@hotmail.com
Recently, I started a thread in the "Family Matters/Child Protection" section, relating to the LynnaeLake situation, which thread can be found at this URL:
link to p209.ezboard.com
Ms. Lake
herself added a post to that thread, to which I replied, but her post
and my reply were soon followed by a post by "Jimmy Mack," which first
post of his/hers was of such a "personal attack" nature that I became
forced by the rules and policies of my board to totally delete its
contents and replace them with an Administrative commentary.
Nonetheless, "Jimmy Mack" continued and increased his/her attacks on the veracity and credibility of, not only Ms. Lake herself, but also anybody and everybody who had helped or supported her in any way.
Despite my numerous, public and private attempts to get "Jimmy Mack" to
reveal his/her personal involvent, interests and motives as lay behind
his "slur campaign," he/she declined to answer.
If anyone reading here is able to provide such information about "Jimmy
Mack" (excluding his true name and address), I would greatly appreciate
learning of it.
I can be contacted through posting in my board at the given URL's,
or by E-mail via josephsarandos@hotmail.com ,
or at my home telephone number of (559) 732-8321,
or at my home address by mail;
Joseph Sarandos
3230 E. Westcott Avenue
Visalia, CA 93292
How many times have I told you?...Let me count the ways 27.Oct.2005 19:08
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jimmy Mack jimimackisback@yahoo.com link
Joseph,
This is becoming more and more serious.
How can you say that I did not answer your questions!? I replied with
all honesty and told you as much as I could without endangering myself
and other victims of Nancy and Lynnae.
I will be happy to speak, by phone, with Portland Independent Media
officials, as long I can be certain of whom I am speaking with, and
explain why I am relentless in warning others.
Not everything that they have done is posted here on these forums. To
post the rest would be life threatening. Even I am not willing to go
that far.
You are so convinced that we are "picking on them" that you cannot see
that they are not the victims...we are!...I speak for all of us, and
there are several who have been severely harmed by them.
Everything is not what it seems, but at least people have a "heads up"
and are beginning to question them. They may question me as well, so I
will repeat...I will come forward, in person if necessary, and I will
testify as to the rest of the story.
The evidence I have cannot be posted, but it can be shown to and be verified by the proper authorities...
And then you will know why I am so adamant about shutting them down...Jimmy Mack
-------------
Note to all concerned:
In the Portland Independent Media Center web site at portland.indymedia.org/en...5244.shtml ,
"Jimmy Mack" had exibited himself/herself to be no less of a secretive,
but simultaneously dishonest and self-aggrandizing cretin, than he/she
has proved to be in this thread of this board, and he/she had resorted
there to the same sort of manner-less and disrespectful attitude toward
me and toward this board, even though I had never engaged in a
conversation with him/her.
Therefore, I have ended my own contributions to that web site, while
"Jimmy Mack" continues his less and less sane tirades there.
Note that in one of his/her final posts in this thread, he/she had
stated; "Rules were meant to be broken". Also, whether it was here or
at the Portland IMC, he/she stated that "The children do not lie".
These happen to be "hallmarks" of CPS-Workers and paid contractors of
the Child Protection/Adoptions Industry, including foster and
fost/adopt parents and their relatives.
The very problem with CPS-Workers, and other paid members of that now $100 billion-per-year industry, is that they regularly and normally "break the rules" of the controlling Federal laws and regulations as require the pre-approval of a Juvenile Court Judge before any child can be lawfully removed from his or her home, unless there is present the aspect of "clear and imminent danger to the child".
More than "coincidentally," the bulk of CPS-Workers regularly and invariably falsely invoke the concept of "clear and imminent danger," and so remove the children without pre-informing the Courts, and usually on Fridays, so as to subject the children to at least
the allowed 72 hours of non-Court time, during which times the children
are transported between "therapists (hypnotists)," SART centers, and
various other "24/7" paid "experts and facilities" that are financially
obliged to "find in their opinions" that the children had acually been
abused in each and every case, and also to coach, trick and hypnotize the children into telling fabricated and embedded lies about their parents when they first appear in Juvenile Court.
If nothing else, "Jimmy Mack" is a fraud, who claims to have, but will not present, factual evidences as prove that Ms. Lake and her supporters are lying to all concerned.
There is also the extreme probability that he/she is blood-related to one or more of the persons who are attempting to gain legal custody of Emily, possibly/probably including Emily's biological father.
The least possibility or probability is that "Jimmy Mack" is or has been an actual active opponent of the CPS system such as it operates to the advantage of liars.
Therefore, in the Portland Independent Media Center web site, as well as in this thread, I was/am requesting third-party information about "Jimmy Mack," for the purpose of learning what he/she is with relationship to the overall situation involving Lynnae and Emily Lake.
In the open as well as via E-mail, "Jimmy Mack" has said things that I'd heard many times before in other such cases, and always from persons who had selfish reasons to "bad mouth" the parents who were/are under accusations and actions by "the CPS system," and in hopes that such parents will not
be able to "prove their innocence" against the "presumption of guilt"
that is pre-assigned to all biological parents who find themselves
accused of "abusing" the children of the State under the Parens Patriae Authority.
I personally love Truth and hate Lies, and so I cannot and will not be
a party to any lies that are being told by any persons for any reasons.
"Pious frauds" are nonetheless frauds. "Pious" liars are nonetheless
liars.
Until and unless I discover firm, or at least credible, proofs to the
contrary, I will continue to consider and treat "Jimmy Mack" as a fraud and a liar with selfish motives. I suggest that all others do the same.
Joseph Sarandos
3230 E. Westcott Avenue
Visalia, CA 93292
(559) 732-8321
josephsarandos@hotmail.com
EDIT:
I have re-published this post verbatim in the Portland IMC web page, minus only the bodface emphases.
Although I will not further post messages there, "Jimmy Mack" is still
free and able to post here in TFTF under the provisions of my Rules and
Policies, but he/she will not
be allowed to quote, or in any other way continue his tirades and
"flames" from the Portland IMC web site. His/her personal opinions of
myself or my board are of no consequence or significance, and I am not the subject or object of his/her "stalking and flaming campaign" with regard to the Lakes.
Of course, I have no control whatsoever over what "Jimmy Mack" posts in
other sites on the internet, and I am sure that he/she will continue
his/her "campaign" in places other than The Full Truth Forum, since
he/she has not managed to gain any supporters or sympathizers here. Edited by: Joseph Sarandos at: 10/28/05 8:10 pm
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